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Title: Game of Thrones
Post by: Chris L on Jul 05, 2017, 01:03 PM
Some of you must be watching Game of Thrones, right? And some of you may be having trouble keeping up with all the characters and plot threads. The new season starts next Sunday and the New York Times is helpfully offering a weekly newsletter (https://goo.gl/bktEjv) for confused viewers that will contain links to sites that explain what you just saw.

And to get you off to a fast start, they also have an article reminding viewers just what state everything was in at the end of last season (//goo.gl/fc31je).

Should you want to talk about the show in general, this is the thread for it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Bobster on Jul 07, 2017, 07:27 PM
Excellent!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Chris L on Jul 16, 2017, 05:32 PM
All six seasons of Game of Thrones summarized by The New York Times. (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/15/watching/game-of-thrones-season-7-premiere.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=photo-spot-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Chris L on Jul 16, 2017, 11:46 PM
Game of Thrones is officially back. Feel free to talk about it, using our new spoiler feature if you want to mention what actually happens in an episode.

With only seven episodes in the season they're going to need to move a bit faster than usual, which is all to the best. George R.R. Martin liked taking his sweet time getting the plot where it needed to go, but the showrunners are no longer under any constraint to follow his lead. I seriously wonder if Martin will even bother finishing the next book. (It would probably sell like crazy, but I have a feeling that he no longer feels the need for money and just wants to bask in his newfound fame.)

Now that
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Daenerys is back home in Westeros, we should see some serious dragon action soon. (Sorry. I just wanted to use the spoiler feature. ;) )
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: valmont on Jul 17, 2017, 07:08 PM
This post is pretty much all spoiler, sorry.

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I feel so vindicated by Episode 1!

I had been thinking that when Daenerys told Jorah to find the cure for stoneflesh, the likely place to start looking for it is among the maesters, so he should go straight to Oldtown and wouldn't it be fun if he happened to meet up with Sam!

And almost from his first appearance, I wondered whether Sandor "The Hound" Clegane might be on an arc of redemption.  It was clear by the end of the first season that he was smitten by Sansa and wanted to do whatever he could to protect her.

Predictions:
Baelish will try to find a way to get rid of Brienne so that Sansa will have to turn to him for help.
Euron will kidnap Tyrion and bring him back to the Red Keep as an offering to Cersei.

People whose whereabouts I expect to be shown soon:
Melisandre
Gendry
Nymiria (I think we caught a glimpse in the preview?)
I have not read the books, but there is a character I know about whom we have not yet seen, and I am hoping we will soon.  The scenes with Clegane, Beric Dondarrion and Thoros of Myr came so close.  But I also know that the show diverges from the books at many points.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: valmont on Jul 25, 2017, 05:39 AM
Vanity Fair has a good recap of this week's episode.

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http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/07/game-of-thrones-how-did-euron-find-yara-sand-snakes-iron-fleet-attack-is-yara-dead

So it is not Tyrion but Ellaria whom Euron will take to Cersei as a gift.  Huge sigh of relief there.
And it now looks as though Baelish will try to get rid of Jon rather than Brienne.
Worried about Sam.  He's wearing gloves, but nothing protecting his face. 
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Chris L on Jul 29, 2017, 02:15 PM
Then Sam had better be quick about writing his history book. A fan theory that I hadn't encountered before argues rather convincingly that Samwell will turn out, in the end, to be the author of A Song of Ice and Fire. (He looks a bit like George R.R. Martin.) After all, the Archmaester has suggested that he write interestingly and Sam wants to give his history a poetic title.

If the producers knew this from the beginning, they may even have cast an actor that looks like Martin as an inside joke.

Samwell Tarly May Have Written Game of Thrones (http://www.distractify.com/trending/2017/07/24/Z1vVSEz/samwell-tarly-wrote-game-of-thrones?utm_content=inf_10_53_2&tse_id=INF_2c3e629073aa11e784dd0bde21677fc8)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Chris L on Jul 29, 2017, 02:20 PM
And @valmont, to directly address your point,
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I assume that the maesters have convincing evidence that greyscale isn't an airborne disease but must be transmitted by direct physical contact. He'd better not kiss Jorah, though.

And good call on your earlier predictions. By now, of course, you know that Melisandre and Nymeria are back, but it looks like they've dismissed the latter from the story.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: valmont on Jul 30, 2017, 03:30 AM
I was very glad to see 
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Jon entrusting Winterfell to Sansa without hesitation. They have had disagreements, but he can see that in her own way she will be a strong leader.  And so Arya is now on her way back home, but Jon will already be gone when she gets there. :(

I had the same thought about Samwell turning out to be the author of the books. :)

I loved the exchange between Daenerys and Varys.  She is growing wiser.  Very interesting to see Melisandre rallying behind D, though I suppose if you worship fire and there are dragons in the world you will naturally be drawn to them.

WHERE IS GENDRY?  Only two people in the world knows about Jon's claim to the Iron Throne, but there are plenty who know about Gendry's claim. 

Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Bobster on Jul 30, 2017, 09:20 AM
Good points, @valmont .   :)
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: valmont on Jul 30, 2017, 07:54 PM
Utterly thrilling.  Jam-packed with incident.  More happened tonight than happened in all of the first season.  It's gonna take a while to process all of this.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Chris L on Jul 30, 2017, 11:49 PM
I'm amused that I start receiving spoilers about Game of Thrones on my Apple Watch at exactly 7 p.m. Sunday evenings, which is when the show ends on the east coast. Since we watch on HBO Go, that's usually while we're watching or, last weekend, while we were waiting for Sondheim on Sondheim to begin at the Hollywood Bowl. Fortunately the spoilers (from The Hollywood Reporter) are pretty vague and don't ruin the episode. (Tonight's alluded vaguely to
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the meeting between Jon Snow and Daenaerys.)


My main concern at this point is
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when the hell is Daenaerys going to discover that Jon Snow is her nephew. It would certainly change her attitude toward him, either making her friendlier or afraid that he's competition for the throne. The only character that knows about the relationship is Bran and, though he's now at Winterfell with Sansa, he isn't being very talkative. You'd think he'd be more eager to share this revelation with the only other person there with whom he shared Jon Snow as a supposed half-brother, but maybe he considers it privileged information of the Three-Eyed Raven. He knows everything about everything, so maybe he feels that with great knowledge comes a great responsibility to keep his mouth shut.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: valmont on Jul 31, 2017, 04:46 AM
It's depressing that, in addition to facebook posts and message boards, we now have to guard against spoilers from news organizations.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: AmyG on Jul 31, 2017, 06:06 AM
Quote from: valmont on Jul 31, 2017, 04:46 AMIt's depressing that, in addition to facebook posts and message boards, we now have to guard against spoilers from news organizations.
Yeah, I had to stop following Entertainment Weekly because they always spoil stuff right in my feed. You don't even have to go to the article. They thought they were being subtle but anybody with any sense could figure it out from the headline together with the picture.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Bobster on Jul 31, 2017, 08:47 PM
I used to really get furious about that.  But then, about 20 or so years ago, I saw the writing on the wall of the internet and decided to heck with it.

Now I tend to read before I watch so I can see things develop.   :)

Now that I think about it, I am the type who reads the end of mysteries...
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: MartinG on Aug 05, 2017, 12:51 AM
By contrast, I've been known to run out of the office screaming with my fingers in my ears if the conversation threatens to reveal stuff I haven't seen yet.  :D
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Chris L on Aug 06, 2017, 08:17 PM
Tonight's episode was possibly the most stunning to date and the climactic scene is something we've wanted to see since almost the first season. If you haven't seen it yet, avoid spoilers at all costs. (There's allegedly a leaked script on the Internet from the HBO hack, but I've managed to avoid it all week.)

They're moving very quickly. We're only halfway through this season, though with the short seasons they're currently doing that means there are only nine episodes remaining.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: valmont on Aug 06, 2017, 08:52 PM
After the episode ended I just sat in the dark and muttered "oh my god" for thirty minutes.

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Damn Qyburn and his damn Scorpion!  Bronn has been one of my favorite characters, but I was actually wishing he'd get killed by that Dothraki that was chasing him.  This battle scene was thrilling, but filled me with anxiety, not least for the safety of Drogon and his rider.  By the end I was exhausted.

I hope Jamie was able to get free of his armor before he drowned.  That will make him Tyrion's prisoner, that'll be nice and awkward.  Jamie now knows that Tyrion is innocent of Joffrey's murder, but unfortunately, Cersei still does not.

The scene of Arya training with Brienne was satisfying, but why did Sansa abruptly walk away like that?

The business with the dagger has been interesting.  So now Arya has Valyrian steel, and I'm betting that before the season is over she will have need of it.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Chris L on Aug 07, 2017, 12:44 PM
@valmont,

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I think we can be safely assured that Jaime will survive the fall into the river. He's too interesting a character to kill and has been underutilized up until now. A few long scenes with Tyrion could rectify that and demonstrate how Jaime has matured since the early episodes, especially since losing his arm. Personally, I'd hate to see him go.

The scenes with Daenaerys and Drogon were thrilling and I was happy that the show handled them so well. I hadn't expected her to do anything like this until the end of the season, so they must have something much larger planned for the penultimate episode, which is usually where the season peaks on this show. Outdoing the Lannister/Dothraki battle is going to be tough, though.

And I wonder if Bran, or what remains of him, is going to get around to telling anyone what he's learned about Jon Snow's ancestry. And whether he'll do it before or after Daenaerys and Jon give in to the obvious sexual chemistry between them.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: valmont on Aug 07, 2017, 02:47 PM
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Quote from: Chris L on Aug 07, 2017, 12:44 PMAnd I wonder if Bran, or what remains of him, is going to get around to telling anyone what he's learned about Jon Snow's ancestry. And whether he'll do it before or after Daenaerys and Jon give in to the obvious sexual chemistry between them.

I've been wondering this as well.  Bran now seems uninterested in human affairs (no pun intended), for he had seen Arya at the crossroads, knew she was coming to Winterfell, but said nothing about it to Sansa.  Bran has seen quite a lot in the past, I wonder what, if anything, he is able to see in the future, and whether such knowledge will help the cause or merely confuse their efforts.

Someone online suggested that Meera might re-enter the plot by bringing Howland Reed to Winterfell in order to spill the beans about Jon's parentage.

I did not bother to watch the preview of the next episode last night; it showed Jon making the acquaintance of Drogon as Daenerys returns to Dragonstone, so I might at least have spared myself some anxiety on that score.

I think Jon is about to head to Eastwatch-By-The-Sea with a party that will probably include Davos, and I expect they will meet up with Berrick Dondarian, Thoros, and Sandor Clegane.

Very excited about Sam's new task to make copies of that big pile of books because undoubtedly some arcane but vital bit of knowledge will thereby be discovered.


Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Chris L on Aug 07, 2017, 03:18 PM
Quote from: valmont on Aug 07, 2017, 02:47 PM
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I've been wondering this as well.  Bran now seems uninterested in human affairs (no pun intended), for he had seen Arya at the crossroads, knew she was coming to Winterfell, but said nothing about it to Sansa.  Bran has seen quite a lot in the past, I wonder what, if anything, he is able to see in the future, and whether such knowledge will help the cause or merely confuse their efforts.


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Bran seems to be able to see the past, though I have to wonder if he's not just seeing the memories acquired by earlier generations of Three-Eyed Ravens. He also can see what's going on anywhere in Westeros at present. But has there been any indication that he can see into the future? I tend to doubt that he can, except by making deductions based on the vast array of knowledge available to him.
We tend to look the other way during the previews, so that we can watch the After the Episode segment without having anything spoiled, but I'm glad to hear that Drogon survives. I had suspected that he would, given how peppy he became the moment Daenaerys pulled the scorpion bolt out of him.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Bobster on Aug 07, 2017, 09:24 PM
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To me, Sansa walked out like that because Arya is now supreme at combat--heck, she practically could have killed Brienne--so she's a little threatened that she may end up just being a "wife" and not a leader.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Leighton on Aug 10, 2017, 03:28 PM
My favourite moment was Bronn laughing at 'Dickon'

Breathtaking stuff
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: valmont on Aug 13, 2017, 08:00 PM
This was a great episode of rising action without any major conflicts, though I certainly did not expect

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That Sam would leave the Citadel. How delightful it was that a crucial bit of knowledge was offhandedly disclosed by Gilly, of all people, and Sam completely ignored it. I had expected that the action would converge on Eastwatch, but I didn't expect the Gendry would make one of the party.

I fear that Daenerys will come to regret putting the Tarleys to death, much as Robb's gravest mistake was putting to death the Karstarks who murdered the Lannister boys.

It seems to me that Daenerys has fallen in love with Jon.  But we must bear in mind, that the Targaryen wed brother and sister for centuries, so I expect to her the revelation that he is her nephew would not be particularly troubling.


Everything is happening so fast. These five episodes could have been a full season.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Chris L on Aug 14, 2017, 01:19 AM
I'm surprised that it looks as though
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Sam is going to be the one to discover Jon Snow's lineage, which is probably for the best given that Bran doesn't seem to give a shit about anything. I think his revelation last season was mostly for the viewers, just to get it out of the way because so many people had already figured it out. Dramatically, it would have been better saved for this season, but fan theorists had already beat it to death.


Otherwise, the episode mainly seemed to be setting up the next one, so I think we can expect
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a major confrontation with the white walkers (and, from what little I glimpsed of the preview, the Night King) in the next episode. The penultimate episode is always their big one, so this had better be good, to top Daenaerys and Drogon taking down the loot train.


BTW, neither Amy nor I can remember where Davos knows Gendry from. Where was that? In Season Two? Three? They seem to be well acquainted.

And I guess there won't be any more Dickon jokes.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: valmont on Aug 14, 2017, 04:11 AM
 It happened late in season 3. 
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After the defeat at Blackwater Bay, Melisandre was anxious to turn Stannis's fortunes.  Gendry had escaped harrenhal with Arya and hot pie, when they were captured by the Brotherhood.  The Brotherhood then released them, but Gendry was tired of running and decided to stay with them and be their blacksmith.   But he was sold by Thoros and Beric to Melisandre who brought him to Dragonstone. Davos had seen her give birth to the Smoke demon thing whatever it was that murdered Renly. He surmised that Melisandre planned to sacrifice Gendry to the Lord of Light. We thought so too, because she insisted that she needed Royal Blood to do whatever it was she was going to do. At first, she just took some of Gendry's blood with leeches which were burned in a brazier as part of the spell in which Robb Stark, Joffrey Baratheon, and Balin Greyjoy were cursed to die.  But Gendry was not released.  Melisandre still had plans for him, and he was locked in a cell. Davos sneaked down and released him and put him in a row boat.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: AmyG on Aug 14, 2017, 08:36 AM
It occurred to me last night that...

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...the white walkers are the equivalent of climate change — An impending weather-related doom that is soon to descend upon the world. Jon Snow is Al Gore. He knows the truth but is having trouble convincing anybody else. Daenerys Targaryen is opening up to the idea slowly. In this analogy, she represents any world leader that entered into the Paris Agreement. Cercei is Donald Trump, in complete denial.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: valmont on Aug 20, 2017, 08:06 PM
WOW.  Tonight's episode was amazing.  A solid half-hour of dialogue followed by a solid half-hour of action.  You'd think that structure wouldn't work, that it would feel lopsided, but it does work brilliantly.  And how nice it was to have complete conversations again!  Character development even at this late hour.  So welcome.

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Oh Viserion :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Is there another writer who, just when everything has got as bad as you can imagine, can manage to make them even worse?  This is the worst thing that could have happened.

Why do I have the suspicion that Cersei is going to think she can commandeer the Army of the Dead for her own purposes?

Bran has been able to control a bird, a wolf, and a man.  Can he control a wight, I wonder?

Something in those books Sam stole from the citadel has the secret that will win the war(s).  But I wonder where he is going.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Chris L on Aug 20, 2017, 08:15 PM
Well, I didn't see that coming!

I've been wondering since Episode Four whether they could come up with something to top the Loot Train Battle and it looks like they did indeed have a trick up their sleeves.


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Looking back at the episode, I realize they showed us the zombie polar bear to establish that animals can become White Walkers as well as humans, and yet it still surprised me when the Night King dragged whichever of Dany's dragons that was out of the frozen lake. The fact that the NK has a weapon that kills dragons seems like a bit of a deus ex machina -- Had there been any hint previously that they might be able to do this? -- but it certainly sets us up for a spectacular aerial war in Season Eight.

I turned to Amy afterwards and asked her how a zombie dragon could breathe fire without burning itself up and she replied, quite reasonably, that it's going to breathe ice. That's quite a new twist on the "ice and fire" motif of the series.

Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Chris L on Aug 20, 2017, 08:18 PM
Quote from: valmont on Aug 20, 2017, 08:06 PMWOW.  Tonight's episode was amazing.  A solid half-hour of dialogue followed by a solid half-hour of action.  You'd think that structure wouldn't work, that it would feel lopsided, but it does work brilliantly.  And how nice it was to have complete conversations again!  Character development even at this late hour.  So welcome.

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Oh Viserion :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Is there another writer who, just when everything has got as bad as you can imagine, can manage to make them even worse?  This is the worst thing that could have happened.

Why do I have the suspicion that Cersei is going to think she can commandeer the Army of the Dead for her own purposes?

Bran has been able to control a bird, a wolf, and a man.  Can he control a wight, I wonder?

Something in those books Sam stole from the citadel has the secret that will win the war(s).  But I wonder where he is going.

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I wonder if Sam will come up with something to explain that spear the Ice King used. Interesting idea about Bran being able to warg into a white walker. I wonder if he can warg into a dragon? Or a dragon white walker?

So, do you suppose this is from one of the hints that GRRM gave the DBs about what he had planned?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Chris L on Aug 20, 2017, 08:33 PM
On the subject of
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wargs, I seem to recall that, in the books, there was a hint that Jon Snow was also a warg. There's a scene where, when he first goes north of the wall, he's lying in the snow, a captive of the wildlings, and wargs into a bird flying overhead. Has that happened on the show?
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Bobster on Aug 21, 2017, 09:40 PM
I think something about that was implied, @Chris L but I don't remember if it was a dream or not.

And while the UNFortunate Incident happened, I was touched by a certain outcome but was more worried in this episode about

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Arya and Sansa threatening each other and Sansa acting (forgive me) Like A Girl in appearing to trust Littlefinger.  If only Arya had said where she found it; they would finally have an advantage over Littlefinger!!!
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Leighton on Aug 22, 2017, 10:27 AM
Am I the only one who really dislikes 
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where they're taking Arya and Sansa?  It feels so forced.  I also, in all honesty, saw the zombie dragon coming from the moment he was speared.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: valmont on Aug 22, 2017, 11:19 AM
Chris wrote on Facebook objecting to ...

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The chains.
What bothers me more is, who dragged them down there?  It's been established the wights can't swim.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Chris L on Aug 22, 2017, 01:14 PM
Actually, it was my friend Sean Tucker who
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objected to the chains. After the magical appearance of the dragon-killing spear, I was willing to accept that the White Walkers had a full arsenal of what ever deus ex machinas (dei ex machina?) that the story might need.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Chris L on Aug 22, 2017, 01:19 PM
Quote from: Bobster on Aug 21, 2017, 09:40 PMI think something about that was implied, @Chris L but I don't remember if it was a dream or not.

And while the Fortunate Incident happened, I was touched by a certain outcome but was more worried in this episode about

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Arya and Sansa threatening each other and Sansa acting (forgive me) Like A Girl in appearing to trust Littlefinger.  If only Arya had said where she found it; they would finally have an advantage over Littlefinger!!!

@Bobster - A lot of things this season have seemed contrived for plot reasons, as though Martin gave the writers a few plot points he'd planned to get to
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(like the zombie dragon)
and they have to figure out how to get to them. I suspect the
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Arya/Sansa thing is heading toward some major plot point, but the showrunners are in too much of a hurry to be subtle or even sensible about getting there.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Bobster on Aug 23, 2017, 08:46 PM
Quote from: Chris L on Aug 22, 2017, 01:14 PMActually, it was my friend Sean Tucker who
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objected to the chains. After the magical appearance of the dragon-killing spear, I was willing to accept that the White Walkers had a full arsenal of what ever deus ex machinas (dei ex machina?) that the story might need.

That didn't upset me since
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there was a shot with the White Walkers and THREE ice spears so it was obvious to me that the Night King was well ready and planned ahead that he'd get a dragon and had the chains brought.
Title: Re: Game of Thrones
Post by: Chris L on Aug 27, 2017, 08:21 PM
So why is it
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that Bran knew "everything" except the little bit about Jon's parents being married? Did he fast forward through that part because he thought it would be boring?

The Arya-Sansa thing began to become obvious when Littlefinger gave his little speech about assuming the worst about someone's words. It applied too well, and too obviously, to his own words for even "slow learner" Sansa to miss it, though I was surprised she dealt with him quite as quickly and permanently as she did.

So what is that dragon breathing? Blue-hot flame? Or just really destructive ice? If it's really flame, why doesn't he burn up? He's a wight, after all.

I do like that Jaime Lannister has shaped up as one of the most admirable characters on the show, his feelings toward Cersei notwithstanding. And since Cersei seems to be depending on Euron to bring an army to her, she's pretty much on her own now. Except for her friend the Mountain, and the Hound will probably take him out before the next season is over, resulting in what fans have been clamoring for for seasons now: the Clegane Bowl!

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